評(píng)論
打印
LEHRER: Senator Obama, you have a question for Senator McCain on that?
主持人：奧巴馬議員，對(duì)麥凱恩議員剛才所說的有問題嗎？
OBAMA: Well, let me just make a couple of points.
奧巴馬：呃，讓我指出幾點(diǎn)來。
LEHRER: All right.
主持人：好的。
OBAMA: My definition -- here's what I can tell the American people: 95 percent of you will get a tax cut. And if you make less than $250,000, less than a quarter-million dollars a year, then you will not see one dime's worth of tax increase.
奧巴馬：我的（關(guān)于富裕的）定義--這里是我可以告訴美國人民的：你們中的百分之95都將得到減稅。而如果你的收入少于25萬美元，每年少于25萬美元，你將不會(huì)看到（哪怕是）一分錢的稅收增加。
Now, John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he's absolutely right. Here's the problem: There are so many loopholes that have been written into the tax code, oftentimes with support of Senator McCain, that we actually see our businesses pay effectively one of the lowest tax rates in the world.
現(xiàn)在，約翰（麥凱恩）提到這個(gè)國家的商業(yè)稅在紙面上很高的這個(gè)事實(shí)，他完全正確。問題是：我們有太多的漏洞寫進(jìn)了稅務(wù)法，這些漏洞常常就是麥凱恩議員支持的，以致于我們國家的商業(yè)活動(dòng)實(shí)際上繳納是世界上最低的稅率之一。
And what that means, then, is that there are people out there who are working every day, who are not getting a tax cut, and you want to give them more.
那意味著什么？那意味著那些每天工作的人們，他們沒有得到減稅，而你還想要從他們那里收取更多（稅）。
It's not like you want to close the loopholes. You just want to add an additional tax cut over the loopholes. And that's a problem.
似乎你不是想要關(guān)閉那些漏洞。只是想在那些（免稅）漏洞上（向富人）提供更多的減稅。而那就是問題所在。
Just one last point I want to make, since Senator McCain talked about providing a $5,000 health credit. Now, what he doesn't tell you is that he intends to, for the first time in history, tax health benefits.
既然麥凱恩議員談到了提供5000美元的退稅（計(jì)劃），我還想指出最后一點(diǎn)。那些他沒有告訴你們的，那就是，他企圖有史以來首次向醫(yī)療保險(xiǎn)收稅。
So you may end up getting a $5,000 tax credit. Here's the only problem: Your employer now has to pay taxes on the health care that you're getting from your employer. And if you end up losing your health care from your employer, you've got to go out on the open market and try to buy it.
所以你們最終也許能得到5000美元的退稅。唯一的問題是：你們的老板現(xiàn)在得為向你們提供的醫(yī)療保險(xiǎn)繳稅。而且如果你們最終（由于老板不愿意繳稅）而失去了你們老板所提供的醫(yī)療保險(xiǎn)，你們只能到外面去自己給自己買一份。
It is not a good deal for the American people. But it's an example of this notion that the market can always solve everything and that the less regulation we have, the better off we're going to be.
這對(duì)美國人民來說可不是一件好事。但這就是采納（麥凱恩的）這個(gè)觀念一個(gè)例子。這觀念認(rèn)為市場可以解決一切問題，對(duì)市場的管理越少，我們的日子就會(huì)過得越好。
MCCAIN: Well, you know, let me just...
麥凱恩：呃，你知道，讓我只是......
LEHRER: We've got to go to another lead question.
主持人：（打斷）我們得進(jìn)入下一個(gè)引導(dǎo)問題了。
MCCAIN: I know we have to, but this is a classic example of walking the walk and talking the talk.
麥凱恩：（打斷）我知道我們得（進(jìn)入下一個(gè)問題）了，但（奧巴馬）的行為是一個(gè)典型的做歸做，說歸說的例子。
（注：Walking the walk, and talking the talk。最早源自亞里士多德的追隨者，他們通常一邊走來走去，一邊討論著哲學(xué)問題。后來，這些人就被稱為"Walk the talk"，即"實(shí)踐著談?wù)?，因?yàn)樗麄兊挠懻摼褪窃趯?shí)踐。而"Walk the walk"后來就指實(shí)踐活動(dòng)，"Talk the talk"則指高談闊論。）
We had an energy bill before the United States Senate. It was festooned with Christmas tree ornaments. It had all kinds of breaks for the oil companies, I mean, billions of dollars worth. I voted against it; Senator Obama voted for it.
美國國會(huì)之前曾有過一個(gè)能源議案。它用圣誕樹上的裝飾品打扮得很好。它有著各種各樣的向石油公司的減稅，我指的是，價(jià)值幾十億美元的稅。我投票反對(duì)了這個(gè)議案，而奧巴馬議員投票支持了這個(gè)議案。
OBAMA: John, you want to give oil companies another $4 billion.
奧巴馬：（插話）約翰（麥凱恩），你想要給石油公司另外40億美元的減稅。
MCCAIN: You've got to look at our record. You've got to look at our records. That's the important thing.
麥凱恩：（打斷）我們必須瞅瞅自己的過去。瞅瞅自己的過去。那很重要。
Who fought against wasteful and earmark spending? Who has been the person who has tried to keep spending under control? Who's the person who has believed that the best thing for America is -- is to have a tax system that is fundamentally fair? And I've fought to simplify it, and I have proposals to simplify it.
誰在和浪費(fèi)的撥款項(xiàng)目花銷作斗爭？誰是那個(gè)一直試圖在控制花銷的人？誰認(rèn)為對(duì)美國最好的東西就是......就是一個(gè)根本上公平的稅收系統(tǒng)？我一直在為精簡（開銷）而戰(zhàn)斗，而且我提出了精簡它的辦法。
Let's give every American a choice: two tax brackets, generous dividends, and, two -- and let Americans choose whether they want the -- the existing tax code or they want a new tax code.
讓我們給每個(gè)美國人一個(gè)選擇：兩個(gè)繳稅等級(jí)（指富人和窮人繳納不同的稅率），高利息，還有，兩個(gè)--讓美國人民來選擇他們想要哪個(gè)--舊的稅務(wù)法還是想要一個(gè)新的稅務(wù)法。
And so, again, look at the record, particularly the energy bill. But, again, Senator Obama has shifted on a number of occasions. He has voted in the United States Senate to increase taxes on people who make as low as $42,000 a year.
所以，再說一次，看看（奧巴馬）以前的記錄，特別是那能源議案。奧巴馬議員在多個(gè)場合過改變（他的立場）。他曾經(jīng)在美國議會(huì)投票支持向那些年收入只有4.2萬美元之低的人增稅。
OBAMA: That's not true, John. That's not true.
奧巴馬：（插話）那不是真的，約翰。那不是真的。
MCCAIN: And that's just a fact. Again, you can look it up.
麥凱恩：（打斷）那就是事實(shí)。我再說一次，你可以去查一下。
OBAMA: Look, it's just not true. And if we want to talk about oil company profits, under your tax plan, John -- this is undeniable -- oil companies would get an additional $4 billion in tax breaks.
奧巴馬：聽著，那不是真的。如果我們要談?wù)勈凸镜睦麧櫍谀愕亩愂沼?jì)劃下，約翰（麥凱恩）--你否認(rèn)不了--石油公司將得到額外40億美元的減稅。
Now, look, we all would love to lower taxes on everybody. But here's the problem: If we are giving them to oil companies, then that means that there are those who are not going to be getting them. And...
現(xiàn)在，聽著，我們每個(gè)人都喜歡低稅率。但問題是：如果我們給石油公司減稅，那意味著另外一些人將得不到減稅，而且......
MCCAIN: With all due respect, you already gave them to the oil companies.
麥凱恩：（打斷）不好意思，你已經(jīng)給那些石油公司減稅了。
