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The conflict between Arab and Jew in Israel and the occupied territories
阿拉伯和以色列猶太人之間關(guān)于被占領(lǐng)領(lǐng)土的沖突是用炸彈、
is fought with bombs and jet fighter attacks and with high level political posturing.
噴氣戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的攻擊和高層政治姿態(tài)來解決的。
But there's also a psychological struggle between the two.
但兩者之間也有心理戰(zhàn)。下面請聽
New York Times Correspondent David Shipler has written a book called Arab and Jew,
《紐約時報》記者大衛(wèi)·希普勒曾寫過一本書，名為《阿拉伯人和猶太人》，
which explores the stereotypes and myths that Israelis learn about Arabs, and that Arabs learn about Israelis.
這本書講解了以色列人與阿拉伯人互相了解的典型范例和神話。
These myths, said Shipler, stem from and help perpetuate the political and military conflicts.
希普勒表示，這些神話與政治和軍事沖突相生相伴。
Shipler says the two cultures teach their children to hate in the schools.
希普勒還說，兩個民族的文化都讓孩子在學(xué)校的時候就學(xué)會了憎恨。
Increasingly, Israeli Jews are beginning to realize that the battlefield is not only on the frontiers of their country ,
以色列猶太人越來越發(fā)覺，戰(zhàn)場并非國家唯一的疆界，
but also in the minds of their children, that what happens in classrooms,
他們的疆界還應(yīng)該在孩子們的腦海里，在教室的課程里，
how the Arab is portrayed in text-books, how the teachers talk about Arabs,
在阿拉伯人在書本中的形象里，在老師口中有關(guān)阿拉伯人的故事里，
how Arab children see Jews as they grow up, all of these elements are important in shaping the future,
在阿拉伯兒童目睹猶太人長大的場景里，這些元素對于塑造未來都很重要。
because the prejudices are very deep and are reinforced so thoroughly every day that it's hard to see a way out of them .
由于偏見已深，而且每天都貫徹的如此徹底，所以很難找到彌合的入口。
There is textbook called The Arabs and Islam that's used ...
有一本教科書名為《阿拉伯人和伊斯蘭人》，
it's published by the Israeli Ministry of Education and Culture and used in religious Jewish schools for seventh and eighth graders.
這本書由以色列教育文化部出版，是七年級和八年級猶太學(xué)生的課本。
And that textbook portrays the Arab as essentially primitive and violent.
這本書將阿拉伯人描繪成暴力的原始人類。
These two concepts go together in the sense that the Arab affection for violence and battle and warfare and robbery is highlighted.
有兩種觀念始終一道出現(xiàn)，給人一種這樣的感覺：阿拉伯人鐘愛暴力、戰(zhàn)爭、劫掠，這種感覺是這本書一直強(qiáng)調(diào)的內(nèi)容。
And you don't get any sense at all of the Arab as a modern, urban professional.
從書中一點都感覺不到阿拉伯是一個現(xiàn)代、專業(yè)的都市民族。
The Arab is a desert warrior essentially, whose children grow up playing games. ...
阿拉伯人就是沙漠中的騎士，小孩子都是玩牌長大的。
For example, there's a passage that says the Bedouin man is proud to engage in robbery and so educates his children.
比如，其中有一段說，貝多因人很驕傲能劫掠他人，也樂于向孩子言傳身教。
Bedouin children like the game Hassu, robbery raids.
貝多因的孩子很喜歡玩兒Hassu的游戲，也就是搶劫游戲。
They compete in running and wrestling and learn to use weapons at a very young age.
大家爭相賽跑，彼此扭打，很小的時候就會用武器了。
In another section, there's a phrase that says,
還有一句話可以從側(cè)面印證這一點：
the women who lose their sons or husbands in the battle receive the hard news without weeping or cries.
丈夫或者兒子在戰(zhàn)場上陣亡的女性即便聽聞這樣的消息也不會掩面而哭。
In other words, the Arab doesn't value human life somehow. Now that stereotype is fairly common to many cultures.
換言之，阿拉伯人并不珍視生命?，F(xiàn)在很多文化都是如此。
We heard that during the Vietnam War about the Vietnamese : they don't value human life like we Westerners.
越南戰(zhàn)爭期間，我們聽聞越南人說自己：并不像西方人一樣珍視生命。
Exactly. During the Korean War about the Koreans, during World War II about the Japanese.
確實如此，朝鮮戰(zhàn)爭期間，朝鮮人是如此；二戰(zhàn)期間，日本人也是如此。
It's a fairly common one. Of course, what it does is dehumanize the Arab in the eyes of Jewish children who are raised with these textbooks.
這種心理很常見。當(dāng)然了，這樣做的結(jié)果就是讓阿拉伯人成了猶太孩子眼中毫無人性的人類，因為猶太人是看著這樣的教科書長大的。
Now what happens when you go to schools of Arabs inside Israeli occupied territory?
那么，在以色列的領(lǐng)土內(nèi)上阿拉伯的學(xué)校會怎樣呢？
How did they portray the Jews, the Israelis?
阿拉伯人會怎樣描述猶太人和以色列人呢？
The textbooks that are used surreptitiously in Arab schools on the West Bank,
約旦河西岸的阿拉伯學(xué)校會
for example, are published by Jordan. You say, surreptitiously.
偷偷使用約旦人出版的教材。沒錯，是偷偷。
Yes, because the Israeli procedure is to take those Jordanian textbooks, expurgate the offensive passages and republish them.
之所以這樣是因為以色列會將約旦版的教材拿過來，刪減掉有冒犯性的部分，然后重新發(fā)布。
But in fact they have only three inspectors for a thousand schools to check
但實際上，1000所學(xué)校只有3個審查員負(fù)責(zé)
to make sure that Arab teachers are not using the Jordanian versions.
檢查阿拉伯教師是否有使用約旦的版本。
So they really can't check up very thoroughly. And the Jordanian versions do creep into the classrooms.
所以他們也無法徹查。而約旦的版本就這樣走進(jìn)了阿拉伯學(xué)生的教室。
What happens in those textbooks is that Jews are portrayed as violent
約旦版教科書將猶太人描繪成暴力的形象，
and are hardly seen at all except in the context of the Arab-Israeli conflict.
而且猶太人每每在教科書中出現(xiàn)，都是阿拉伯和以色列發(fā)生沖突的時候。
One of the interesting companion stereotypes to the Jew as violent that you see in Arab textbooks is the Jew as a coward.
有趣的是，跟暴力形象一樣頻繁出現(xiàn)在課本中的猶太人形象是怯懦。
This idea is quite pervasive. The Jew is strong because he has advanced weapons,
怯懦的形象可謂深入人心。猶太人之所以強(qiáng)大是因為他們有先進(jìn)的武器，
but in his soul, in his heart he's a coward, and so he hides behind these weapons.
但骨子里是懦夫，所以要靠武器來掩飾怯懦。
Is there any way to gauge whether these stereotypes, whether the school's socialization process is really working?
有什么途徑能評估這些典型形象以及學(xué)校的社交化流程是否起到了什么作用呢？
In other words, can you somehow measure if the ...
您能評估學(xué)校的教育以怎樣的方式影響著阿拉伯
how these teachings of the schools are affecting the way Arab and Israeli children interact with each other,
和以色列彼此相處的方式嗎？
that it makes them hostile toward each other?
學(xué)校教育會讓他們彼此仇視嗎？
In the first place Arab and Israeli children hardly ever have contact and rarely have an opportunity to interact,
首先，阿拉伯和以色列幾乎接觸不到彼此，
because they live separately, they go to separate schools, and what not.
因為他們生活在不同的地方，學(xué)校也不在一起。
But I think there's no question that the school setting on both sides encourages bigotry.
但我認(rèn)為，毫無疑問的是，雙方學(xué)校的設(shè)置是鼓勵仇視彼此的。
There was one example that brought it home to me of an Israeli girl who was ten years old,
我親眼見過一個例子，一個10歲的以色列小女孩，
who came home from school one day after an attack on Arab mayors on the West Bank,
有一天，這個小女孩從學(xué)校回家，當(dāng)天阿拉伯人在約旦河西岸遭受了攻擊。
and she said, Mommy, are we glad or not glad that it happened? She didn't know.
小女孩問媽媽：媽媽，阿拉伯人發(fā)生這樣的是，我們是該開心還是該不開心？她不知道。
Her mother said, We're absolutely not glad. Violence is never the way.
她的媽媽說：我們當(dāng)然不開心，因為暴力不是解決問題的方法。
And the next day she came home from school, and she said, Mommy, you're wrong. We are glad it happened.
第二天，小女孩放學(xué)回家后對媽媽說：媽媽，你錯了。我們應(yīng)該感到開心才對。
I don't know where she picked it up, whether from other children or from a teacher.
我不知道小女孩是從哪里聽來的，是從其他孩子那里還是從老師那里。
But there are some schools, and in especially religious schools in Israel devoted to teaching children of right-wing ultranationalists,
但有一些學(xué)校，尤其是以色列的一些宗教學(xué)校都專門教孩子學(xué)右翼的極端思想，
where the instruction is quite ideological in terms of rejecting the Arab as an alien
他們教導(dǎo)孩子一種思想，即要排斥阿拉伯人，將他們視為不該生活在這片土地的外族人，
who really doesn't belong in this land except as a subordinate to the Jew.
除非他們服從于猶太人。
Young people have told me that they're taught that the Arab is Amalek,
曾有年輕人告訴我，他們聽老師說過，阿拉伯人是亞瑪力人，
the ancient enemy of the Jews in the Bible who is to be exterminated.
而亞瑪力人在《圣經(jīng)》里是猶太人在古時候的敵人，是要被根除的。
You have been talking a lot about school textbooks, for instance,
關(guān)于學(xué)校的教科書，您已經(jīng)談?wù)撨^很多了，
what's taught in the schools as a way of perpetuating these stereotypes.
比如學(xué)校為了將典型形象洗腦而教了什么。
In our own country, of course, there's been a big effort in the past ten-twenty years to purge textbooks
當(dāng)然了，過去10多年乃至20多年來，我們一直在殷切努力，
in the classrooms of the sort of stereotypes we have had of blacks, for instance, or Indians.
破除我們教科書里對黑人，比如印度人的固有偏見。
Is there anybody in Israel who is trying to do a similar thing with the Israeli textbooks?'
以色列是否有像我們一樣對教科書改革做過類似的努力呢？
Yes, there is an entire effort being conducted by the Vanier Foundation
有的，凡尼亞基金會與教育部合作，
with the Ministry of Education's cooperation to take these stereotypes out of text books,
目的是將這種固有形象從教科書中刪除出去，
to write new ones, to revise the curriculum from top to bottom,
對教科書進(jìn)行改版，從頭到尾進(jìn)行修訂。
beginning in the youngest grades in an effort to sensitize Israeli Jewish children
從低年級開始，目的是讓以色列猶太人的孩子們
to the richness and diversity of Arab culture and to portray Arabs as more than just enemies,
了解到阿拉伯文化的豐富和多樣性，不只將阿拉伯人描繪成敵人，
but also as fellow citizens and neighbors. And this is something the government condones?
還將他們描繪為鄰居。政府是否允許這樣的事情發(fā)生呢？
Well, half-heartedly. There is a support for it officially in the Education Ministry, but the religious schools are reluctant to do it.
怎么說呢，也愿意也不愿意吧。教育部官方是支持這件事的，但宗教學(xué)校卻不愿意這樣做。
And there's been some resistance on the part of some educators at the level of school principal or teacher. So it's a mixed picture.
校長和老師是有些不情愿的。所以什么情況都有。
It's gone to the point where quite a few eleventh grade classes now are following an elective curriculum
事態(tài)已經(jīng)發(fā)展到了這樣的程度：一些11年級的班級會采取選修課的形式，
in which they begin the first day by writing down all the words that come to mind when they think of Arabs.
開學(xué)第一天就要寫下他們在想到阿拉伯人的時候映入腦海的描述。
The teacher then puts them up on the blackboard, and the kids have to sit there and stare at their own prejudices.
然后，老師會把這些詞寫在黑板上，孩子們必須要睜大眼睛看著自己對阿拉伯人的偏見。
And that's the beginning of a process of dealing with the stereotypes they've grown up with.
這只是以色列人應(yīng)對自己從出生起就帶有的偏見的方式，而這只是開始。
David Shipler. His new book is called Arab and Jews : Wounded Spirits in A Promised Land.
大衛(wèi)·希普勒，他的新書叫《阿拉伯人和猶太人：受傷的精神在應(yīng)許之地》。
