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You know, the perpetrators aren't these
肇事者不是
monsters who crawl out of the swamp
那些從沼澤爬出來的妖怪，
and come into town and do their nasty business
來到城鎮做些壞事，
and then retreat into the darkness.
然后撤退回黑暗。
That's a very naive notion, right?
這是很單純的想法，對嗎？
Perpetrators are much more normal than that,
肇事者比這更正常，更普通。
and everyday than that.
現在的問題是，
So the question is, what are we doing here
我們到底在
in our society and in the world?
這社會和世界做著什么？
What are the roles of various institutions
不同的機構在生產施虐男人
in helping to produce abusive men?
這個過程中的角色是什么？
What's the role of religious belief systems,
信仰的角色是什么？
the sports culture, the pornography culture,
運動文化，色情文化，
the family structure, economics, and how that intersects,
家庭機構，經濟，這些都如何影響？
and race and ethnicity and how that intersects?
還有種族有何影響？
How does all this work?
這全部是如何運作？
And then, once we start making those kinds of connections
然后，當我們開始思考這些連接性，
and asking those important and big questions,
和問些重要的宏觀問題，
then we can talk about how we can be transformative,
我們才可以探討如何改變。
in other words, how can we do something differently?
換句話說，我們如何運作些不同的東西？
How can we change the practices?
我們如何改掉行為？
How can we change the socialization of boys
我們要如何改變男生們的交際？
and the definitions of manhood that lead to these current outcomes?
還有男人的定義如何造成現在的成果？
These are the kind of questions that we need
這些都是我們必須問的問題
to be asking and the kind of work that we need to be doing,
和我們必須做的工作，
but if we're endlessly focused on what women are doing
但是如果我們不斷的關注女人在做什么，在想什么
and thinking in relationships or elsewhere,
然后再去考慮這些事件，
we're not going to get to that piece.
我們無法解決問題。
Now, I understand that a lot of women
現在，我明白很多女人
who have been trying to speaking out about these issues,
已經在嘗試說出這問題，
today and yesterday and for years and years,
在今天，昨天，還有很多年很多年，
often get shouted down for their efforts.
但是她們的努力常常被壓制。
They get called nasty names like "male-basher"
她們得了不雅的名稱，如“攻擊男人者”
and "man-hater,"
和“憎恨男人者”
and the disgusting and offensive "feminazi." Right?
然后惡心和厭惡的女人主義，對嗎？
And you know what all this is about?
然后你這到這是為了什么嗎？
It's called kill the messenger.
這叫抹殺我們的“信使”。
It's because the women who are standing up
就是因為女人抗護她們自己的時候，
and speaking out for themselves and for other women
在為其他女人
as well as for men and boys, it's a statement to them
和其他男人和小男孩說話的時候，
to sit down and shut up, keep the current system in place,
這就是在命令她們停下，閉嘴。這就是在維護現在的系統，
because we don't like it when people rock the boat.
因為不喜歡當有人砸船。
We don't like it when people challenge our power.
我們不喜歡有人對抗我們的權力。
You'd better sit down and shut up, basically.
你最好坐下來和閉嘴。
And thank goodness that women haven't done that.
很幸運的，女人沒那么做。
Thank goodness that we live in a world
很幸運的，我們存在一個很多女人領袖
where there's so much women's leadership that can counteract that.
可以互動的世界。
But one of the powerful roles that men can play in this work
但是有一個角色我們男人可以做的，
is that we can say some things
那就是我們也可以說些什么
that sometimes women can't say,
女人不能說的東西。
or, better yet, we can be heard saying some things
更好的是，別人可以聽到我們說一些
that women often can't be heard saying.
別人不愿意聽女人說的話。
Now, I appreciate that that's a problem. It's sexism.
現在，我很珍惜這個是一個問題。這是性別歧視。
But it's the truth. And so one of the things that I say to men,
但這就是事實。然后有件事我時常對男人說，
and my colleagues and I always say this,
我和我的同事常這么說，
is we need more men who have the courage and the strength
是我們需要更多有勇氣和力量的男人，
to start standing up and saying some of this stuff,
站起來說這些問題，
and standing with women and not against them
然后與女人并肩作戰而不是對抗她們，
and pretending that somehow this is
或當作這是個
a battle between the sexes and other kinds of nonsense.
性別之間的戰斗或其他無稽的東西。
We live in the world together.
我們活在同一個世界里。
And by the way, one of the things that really bothers me
然而，最令我頭痛的一件事是
about some of the rhetoric against feminists and others
那些花言巧語反對女權運動。
who have built the battered women's
將那些在世界各地幫助被虐女人
and rape crisis movements around the world
提倡反強奸的活動的女性
is that somehow, like I said, that they're anti-male.
講成好比她們在對抗男性。
What about all the boys who are profoundly affected
想想看那些受負面影響的小男孩，
in a negative way by what some adult man is doing
受年紀大的男人們對
against their mother, themselves, their sisters?
他們的媽媽，姐姐和他們做出不良行為？
What about all those boys?
這些小男孩怎樣呢？
What about all the young men and boys
這些年輕的小男孩
who have been traumatized by adult men's violence?
受到男人暴行影響所受到的創傷呢？
You know what? The same system that produces
你知道嗎？造就虐待女人的
men who abuse women produces men who abuse other men.
和造就虐待男人的是同一個系統。
