Hi, everyone and welcome back to 【詞源考古研究所】, one of your favorite segments, in English we call it【 It means what?】

Whee!

Do you have to do that every time ?

Yes.

All right. Welcome to the studio, 安瀾.

Hi, Lulu. Hi, everyone.

So in this segment, 安瀾 and I are going to explore or get to the bottom of a lot of words, phrases and idioms and explore their back story, their interesting back story. So what is the word or phrase or idiom that we're gonna talk about today?

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Hang on a minute, throw the baby out with the bath water, bath water is洗澡水. Yes. To throw baby out with bath water, isn't that just child abuse? At least child neglect.

Well, you could look at it in that way, but it doesn't actually mean that, it means don't get rid of something valuable or good along with the bad.

Oh, but I sort of understand the gist of it, but what is the origin story? I'm really curious who would throw their baby out when they're throwing away their bath water.

Well, it actually comes from a famous German proverb from the 1500.

Proverb就是一個諺語.

Yeah. Now this dates back to a time and you have to think that this also happened until very recently when the entire household would share the same bath water.

全家人泡一缸水, I think it still happens in Japan.

Well, yeah. But in Japan is slightly different because you actually sort of wash before you go into the bath.

But still... I understand it’s cultural, but it's still a bit strange.

Yeah, but to be honest, it's quite similar to what happened when I was a very, very small baby as well.

If you're a small baby, I kind of understand, yeah, so what it starts with the dad, the head of the household I would assume.

It starts with the head of the house followed by the rest of the men, then the women, then the children, and lastly the baby.

So baby, who is supposed to be the most vulnerable to all the bacteria will actually get to wash the last.

Exactly, so by this point the water would have been dark with dirt and the baby could accidentally be thrown out with the filthy water.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

It was not even because they were careless in that way, or was because by the end of it, the dirty bath water that the entire family already bathed in was so filthy. Yes. You couldn't find the baby or couldn't even notice the baby in it. No wonder so many babies perish back in the days.

Yeah, but it's also important to remember that before running water, it took a lot of effort to make a bath and up until the 20th century, many places in the UK, for example, didn't actually have bathtubs or showers.

Well, that I can understand. I'm just thinking why the order, I mean I understand as a male dominated society, perhaps men took bath before women. That was understandable.

But babies? Didn’t people know that they were the most vulnerable and to dunk your baby in like dirty bath water, not really, not really, is not necessarily the healthiest.

Well, germ theory is actually kind of a very new idea.

Oh, true,true,true. So perhaps they didn't even realize it was causing any harm.

Yeah, for many many years, people actually thought that bathing was dangerous.

Oh, they're saving the baby by putting them in the last.

Well. Because they believe that when you bathe, you put yourself in a vulnerable position and it's easy to get ill. And to a certain extent, we actually still believe that.

Yeah,true, true .

Like if you think about..., if you get wet outside in the rain, then you get sick. We still somewhat believe that.

Oh yeah, in China we definitely still believe that, exactly, they're saying that if you're recovering from a cold or the flu, you really shouldn't bathe or shower.

Well, exactly. And if you think about actually it's water and you are in water at least once a day hopefully, then why would it harm you if it's outside?

Well, it would harm you if you get thrown out, well it would, so back to the phrase or the idiom itself再回到這個習語, throw the baby out with the bath water, but you said don't throw the baby out with bath water, what is the meaning the connotation of it?

It basically means don't get rid of something valuable or good accidentally by trying to get rid of something bad.

Oh, because the dirty bath water is the bad, you throw it away, don't throw the precious baby out with it.

Yeah. Exactly.

In Chinese we have something called we need to去其糟粕, 取其精華, Yeah, so keep the essence and just throw away the slud or the filth.

Exactly. It's pretty much exactly the same meaning as this phrase in English and German.

How would you use this in like a context?

Well, for example, you could use it in business. So for example, if a business is trying to improve itself, but as part of the improvement, they end up losing something that is really valuable. Then you could say don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Okay, I see. You know when I hear this expression first I'm thinking about a field that I am really, really interested in, like all the folk tales or the folk lores.

Folklore就像民間傳說這種. For many years, we thought of it as really backward, really superstitious, 迷信. But in fact...yes, of course it has the really uneducated, superstitious like the negative side. But it also has some very positive side because that is part of our culture. It is little bits of gems in our culture就文化瑰寶的這種.

Yes.

So I think nowadays with a lot of these Chinese, either games or comics or animated films, they're trying to pick these folk tales up again. Yes. So now we're trying not to throw the baby out with the bath water. We're trying to get rid of the negative side of it, but keep the gem, keep the cultural gem.

Exactly.

I see, so let’s end this episode right here. Leave us comment in the comment section and share with us your idea of... or your context of this phrase of this idiom. Like in what situation would you recommend “don't throw the baby out with the bath water”, give us a context.

Yes.

And you can also put in your request for new words, phrases or idioms that you want us to talk about in the segment. Thank you, 安瀾 for coming to the show.

Thanks, Lulu. Thanks everyone.

We're gonna see you next time.

Bye Bye.