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What strikes me about Justine's story is also the fact that if you Google her name today,
賈絲婷的故事最觸動我的是你如今若在谷歌去搜她的名字，
this story covers the first 100 pages of Google results -- there is nothing else about her.
搜索結果的開頭100頁都是說她這個故事的--沒有任何其他關于她的信息。
In your book, you mention another story of another victim who actually got taken on by a reputation management firm,
你的書還提到了另一個故事，一名受害者找到了一家名譽管理公司，這家公司幫她打造博文，
and by creating blogs and posting nice, innocuous stories about her love for cats and holidays and stuff,
上傳了很多暖心的文章，關于她如何愛貓，如何度假等等，
managed to get the story off the first couple pages of Google results, but it didn't last long.
成功地把原來的故事擠出了谷歌搜索結果的前幾頁，不過好景不長。
A couple of weeks later, they started creeping back up to the top result. Is this a totally lost battle?
幾星期后，舊故事又重新回到了搜索結果前列。這是不是意味著我們徹底沒戲了？
You know, I think the very best thing we can do, if you see a kind of unfair or an ambiguous shaming,
我認為，我們現在能做的，就是一旦發現有人在信口開河地亂噴，
is to speak up, because I think the worst thing that happened to Justine was that nobody supported her
就應該大聲指出來，因為我認為對賈絲婷來說最不幸的是沒有人為她說話，
like, everyone was against her, and that is profoundly traumatizing,
似乎每個人都跟她對著干，這是最讓人寒心的，
to be told by tens of thousands of people that you need to get out.
成千上萬的人讓你滾出去。
But if a shaming happens and there's a babble of voices, like in a democracy,
如果語言攻擊發生時，有不同的聲音在表達不同的觀點，就像民主似的，
where people are discussing it, I think that's much less damaging.
人人都能發言討論，這樣的話，殺傷力會小很多。
So I think that's the way forward, but it's hard, because if you do stand up for somebody, it's incredibly unpleasant.
我們應該往這個方向努力，當然這很難，因為你一旦站出來為某人說話，下場可能會非常慘。
So let's talk about your experience, because you stood up by writing this book.
那我們說說你的經驗。你挺身而出，還寫了這本書。
By the way, it's mandatory reading for everybody, okay?
順便說一句，大家都去讀讀這本書，好嗎？
You stood up because the book actually puts the spotlight on shamers.
為什么說你挺身而出，因為你將聚光燈打在了那些噴子身上。
And I assume you didn't only have friendly reactions on Twitter.
我覺得你在推特上沒少挨罵吧。
It didn't go down that well with some people.
有些人確實不怎么喜歡我。
I mean, you don't want to just concentrate -- because lots of people understood, and were really nice about the book.
我是說，你不想僅僅關注--很多人都能明白，都很接受這本書。
But yeah, for 30 years I've been writing stories about abuses of power,
過去30年來我一直在寫關于濫用職權的報道，
and when I say the powerful people over there in the military, or in the pharmaceutical industry, everybody applauds me.
當我曝光軍隊里位高權重之人，或者醫藥行業里只手遮天之人，人人都鼓掌叫好。
As soon as I say, "We are the powerful people abusing our power now," I get people saying, "Well you must be a racist too."
直到我說：“你我也是有權之人，我們也在濫用權力”時，有人就說：“你肯定也是個種族主義者。”
