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The world is flat... So what next? Talk Asia interview with Thomas Friedman
為什么世界是“ 平” 的?——CNN專訪托馬斯·弗里德曼
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Thomas, great to have you on the program today.
CNN特派員 安姿麗：托馬斯，今天很高興能邀請你到節(jié)目里來。
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Good to be here.
記者兼作家 托馬斯·弗里德曼：我很高興能上這個節(jié)目。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Now, you're one of America's leading opinion makers. Is there a sense of responsibility, do you think, that goes along with that? Or do you just say, "You know what? I'm gonna write what I like and you can take it or leave it?
CNN特派員 安姿麗：你是美國非常重要的意見領(lǐng)袖之一。你覺得這個身份會伴隨著很大的責(zé)任嗎?還是你只會這么說“反正我愛寫什么就寫什么，你們要接受就接受，不接受也隨便你”？
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Well, the answer's really both. There's a huge sense of responsibility, you know, people will often come up and say, God, what's that like, to have that audience? Because I know that wide audience is out there, I wake up in the morning, after I've written a column, and I'm totally in agony. Did I get it right, you know? Did I say that exactly the way I wanted to say it? I agonize over every column， precisely 'cause I know it is gonna be read bya lot of people, and it's gonna be in Google, you know, forever. So, there is that sense of responsibility.
記者兼作家 托馬斯·弗里德曼：其實(shí)兩者都有。我的確會感受到一種龐大的責(zé)任感。常常有人問我說，老天，擁有那么多讀者是什么感覺？正因?yàn)槲抑雷约河幸淮笕鹤x者，我寫完一篇專欄之后早上醒來時心里都會掙扎痛苦，想著自己寫對了嗎？我是否……我有沒有確定表達(dá)出我想說的話？我撰寫每篇專欄都深陷痛苦，就是因?yàn)槲抑烙泻芏嗳藭矗疫@些文章會永遠(yuǎn)擺在谷歌上。所以，確定會有種責(zé)任感。
But at the same time, you do have to take the attitude of, "This is what I think, this is why I think it; I'm not in a popularity contest; if you like it, great, if you don't like it, please don't throw a shoe, okay?" But, you gotta believe what you say and say what you think, you know, so...
不過，我也必須保持強(qiáng)硬的態(tài)度，“這是我的想法，這是我這么想的理由。我不是在參加人氣競賽，所以如果你喜歡我的觀點(diǎn)，當(dāng)然很好，但你如果不喜歡，那么，請不要丟鞋子，好嗎？”總之，你必須確信自己說的話，也必須說出內(nèi)心真正的想法，所以……
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:You've long traveled the planet investigating globalization. How do you think that the current economic state of things is going to affect it?
CNN特派員 安姿麗：你為了探究全球化的現(xiàn)象，花了很長一段時間走遍世界各地。你認(rèn)為當(dāng)前的經(jīng)濟(jì)形勢對全球化會有什么影響？
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Well, you know, I wrote a book called The World Is Flat, and I wanna now apologize-I got it wrong. The current economic crisis tells me I got it wrong. The world is so much flatter than I thought. Who knew? Who knew that Iceland was a hedge fund with glaciers? Who knew that 15 British police departments would be depositing their funds in [an] Icelandic online saving account called ice-save.com? You couldn't make that up! Even I-who knew the world was flat-I didn't know it was that flat.
記者兼作家 托馬斯·弗里德曼：你也知道，我寫了一本書叫做《世界是平的》，現(xiàn)在我要道歉:我搞錯了。當(dāng)前的經(jīng)濟(jì)危機(jī)讓我發(fā)現(xiàn)自己搞錯了。世界比我想象的還要平坦得多。誰會知道？說會知道冰島是個覆蓋著冰山的避險(xiǎn)基金？誰知道英國15個警察局會把基金存在 ice-save.com這個冰島的在錢存款賬戶里？這種事情是編造不出來的!即便我早就知道世界是平的，卻也沒想到竟然有這么平。
And that's really what we've learned in this crisis. For me, that's the real revelation. I knew we were intertwined, I knew the world was flat, but what I've really learned is just how flat it's become. A minor variation in interest rates between Iceland and Britain, led all this money, you know to go from Great Britain to Iceland, of all places. So I think that's the real lesson here.
這就是我們在這場危機(jī)里學(xué)到的東西。對我來說，這才是真正的啟發(fā)。我早就知道所有人都密不可分，也知道世界是平的，但我真正學(xué)到的是，世界竟然已變得這么平。冰島對英國的利率才出現(xiàn)些微變動，就導(dǎo)致這么多錢從英國跑到冰島，而不是到其他地方去。我認(rèn)為這就是最重要的教訓(xùn)。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Your most recent book, Hot, Flat and Crowded, what is it precisely about that title that made you choose it?
CNN特派員 安姿麗：你最新的著作叫做《世界又熱又平又?jǐn)D》你為什么會挑選這個書名？
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:It's getting hotter, global warming; it's getting flatter, which is my metaphor for the rise of middle-classes all over the world that are consuming and producing like Americans now, with all the energy and natural resource implications that has. And we're in a world that's getting crowded, population-wise. When I look at these problems, what I see [are] incredible opportunities masquerading as insoluble problems.
記者兼作家 托馬斯·弗里德曼：世界越來越熱，全球變暖。越來越平，我用這個意象比喻中產(chǎn)階級在世界各地興起的現(xiàn)象，這些人的消費(fèi)和生產(chǎn)方式都和現(xiàn)在的美同人一樣，對能源與自然資源、造成的影響也相同。此外，就人口而言，我們的世界也越來越擁擠。這些問題在我眼中都是令人難以置信的機(jī)會，只不過表面上看來像是無法解決的問題而已。
Those opportunities are embedded for me in an escalated15 industrial revolution which I call ET-energy technology-the pursuit of abundant, cheap, clean, reliable electrons and molecules. And the country that owns ET, I believe, is gonna have the most energy security, national security, economic security, competitive industries, clean environment and global respect.
在我看來，這些機(jī)會都潛藏在一種不斷擴(kuò)大的工業(yè)革命當(dāng)中，我稱之為 ET能源科技——追求豐富、廉價(jià)、干凈、可靠的電子與分子。我相信擁有 ET的國家就會擁有最高程度的能源保障、國家安全、經(jīng)濟(jì)穩(wěn)定、富有競爭力的產(chǎn)業(yè)、潔凈的環(huán)境，以及全球的尊重。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:What should we expect from you, in so far as tackling a new subject for your next book?
CNN特派員 安姿麗：我們對你該有什么期待呢?你下一本書會探討什么新主題?
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Well, I'm a big believer of "If you don't go, you don't know," you know, so, I... that's really my motto. I mean, I have the best job in the world. I get to be a tourist with an attitude. I get to go wherever I want, whenever I want, and I get to write whatever I want. It's a great job. I have the best job in the world. I mean, somebody has to have it. I've got it, and you don't, okay? And so, it's a great job.
記者兼作家 托馬斯·弗里德曼：我深信這句話，“不到現(xiàn)場，就不可能知道。”這句話可以真是我的座右銘。我是說，我擁有世界上最棒的工作。我可以是個帶著自身觀點(diǎn)的游客。我想去哪里就去哪里，時間任我自己安排，而且可以寫我自己想寫的東西。這個工作很棒。我擁有全世界最好的工作。這個工作總是會落到某個人手上，剛好就被我拿到了，不是你，對不對?所以，這個工作確實(shí)很棒。
But, with it, as we said, it comes a lot of responsibility and I really write my columns by following my notes. I... Why am I here in Hong Kong? It's not because an editor told me to go to Hong Kong. It's because I was basically sitting in America and in America, right now-I'm normally traveling all the time-I haven't been traveling, 'cause America is the greatest show on Earth right now.
不過，就像我們說的，這個工作伴隨著很大的責(zé)任，我的專欄文章其實(shí)都是按照筆記寫的。我現(xiàn)在為什么在香港。不是因?yàn)槟硞€編輯要我到香港來，而是因?yàn)槲冶緛碓诿绹移匠缀醵荚谒奶幈疾ㄒ灰坏以诿绹呀?jīng)有好一陣子沒有旅行了，因?yàn)槊绹F(xiàn)在就是全球最精彩的節(jié)目。
Between Barack Obama coming in and the financial crisis which we started, basically, I don't wanna go anywhere, all right? But I said, no, if I'm gonna go anywhere, I'm gonna go to China right now because we're not gonna get out of this without cooperating and working closely with China. And it's the G2, now. I mean, at the end of the day, it's gonna be Barack Obama and Hu Jintao. And it's very interesting, you know, when you think about it-Hu Jintao's second term overlaps，as president of China, almost perfectly with Barack Obama's first term. And I have a feeling these two guys are gonna get to know each other really well. I hope it'lI be for the benefie of both countries.
從奧巴馬上任到這場金融危機(jī)的這段時間，我可是哪都不想去。但我心想，不對，如果我要到其他地方去，那我就要去中國。因?yàn)槲覀內(nèi)绻缓椭袊芮泻献鳎筒豢赡軘[脫這片泥沼。現(xiàn)在是 G2兩大工業(yè)同了，我是說，歸根究底，關(guān)鍵就在奧巴馬和胡錦濤兩人身上。說來很有趣，胡錦濤擔(dān)任中國國家主席的第二任任期幾乎和奧巴馬的第一任完全重疊。我覺得他們兩人一定會和對方很熟。希望這樣的情況對兩國都會有利。
I'm an optimist at heart, you know. I was in Israel，a couple of years ago, and um, the editor of the Haaretz Newspaper where my column runs in Israel, [we] had a dinner party, and I asked him what..., "Why do you guys run my column?" And he said, "Tom, it's 'cause you're the only optimist we have." But I do live by the motto that pessimists are usually right. Optimists are usually wrong, but all the great change in history was done by optimists. So, I'm gonna go down swinging with optimism.
我其實(shí)是個樂觀主義者。我?guī)啄昵暗揭陨腥ァＴ谀抢铮业膶诙嫉窃凇秶翀?bào)》。那家報(bào)社的編輯舉辦了一場晚宴，我 問他，可你們?yōu)槭裁吹俏业膶? "他說托馬斯，因?yàn)槟闶俏覀兾ㄒ坏臉酚^主義者。"但我的座右銘是:悲觀主義者的觀點(diǎn)通常 是正確的。樂觀主義者通常會看走眼，但歷史上所有的重大變革都是樂觀主義者打造的結(jié)果。所以，我要抱著樂觀的態(tài)度。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Thomas, it's been a real delight having you on this show, and enlightening to boot.
CNN特派員 安姿麗：托馬斯，能夠邀請你到節(jié)目來真是開心，也非常具有啟發(fā)性。
