Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Britain Under the Microscope. 歡迎回來【閑話英倫】. Hi, 安瀾.

Hi lulu, hi everyone.

It's very difficult for me to imagine even though that I’ve lived in the UK and talked to many British people but still, because for me I come from a completely different background, I would have to say, sometimes in China you hear these debate, we're not like an immigration country or immigrant country, but still with when there are more people pouring in from other countries, but I know it's a sensitive topic, but you do hear people say like voicing their concerns about what this will do to, for example, your own belief system, your values, your culture, I know in China they are really nominal number, minimal realistic numbers, but there's still that concern. I'm just wondering if British people are ever concerned about not losing something that's intrinsically British or English.

I would say, yes, there is that concern, particularly if some people feel that the value system or the beliefs of immigrants clashes with what we consider as British values. But the problem is that we can't really define what so called British values actually are. If you ask me as a British person what would be considered British, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

So it's not based on race or ethnicity.

It's not based on race or ethnicity. I would say to a certain extent it's based more on belief and values.

This might be the major difference between China and the UK because for us it’s a lot about blood about ethnicity.

Yeah, in the UK I would say it's a lot less about that, for some people it is, and even though I don't quite understand because what it means to be British is such a fluid concept. It's always changing. I do not think anyone could really define what it is to be British.

Yeah, but you are perhaps very liberal minded in this.

Probably I am.

The other thing that I think of many people even if we put the whole cultural identity, 把這個文化圈認同先放一邊, just realistically or pragmatically, I think many voters in the UK they were worried about over stretching or over stretched public services, like health services, housing, etc.

Yeah. Exactly. That was the main concern that immigrants had to overstretch public services and housing. Now to be honest for me, I don't quite agree with that, because housing is a problem in the UK no matter what, it's always been a problem in the UK; and public services, most of our public services rely on immigrants.

That is true, because you just have to take one look at NHS workers, a lot of immigrants.

Yeah. And the thing it's only around 15% of the UK population who are foreign born.

I love the fact that you say only around 15% because for us this is an unthinkable number.

There are some cities in the world where it goes up to about 60%.

Wow. 60%. Then who are the locals, who are the immigrants？

And that's the whole thing. I don't think it really matters because most immigrants work hard, they pay their taxes.

So why can't they live in the UK, why can't they just live their lives? They don't break the law, they just live their lives as honest citizens.

Yeah. I mean I have to admit although I consider myself quite liberal minded, but when it comes to immigration I do have my own Like concerns about, for example, if you think in the future, the whole trend is going to be we're all blended together, but then we will have to rethink about our cultural identity. What defines us? Would there still be the idea of cultural identity?

To be honest that I don't quite agree with that because ultimately, humans will always try to seek some form of cultural identity. It's just the cultural identity, the values, the belief, what is considered the culture changes.

All right. So far we've actually had a lot of talks, debates, but now let's look at the pragmatics. So now how easy it is to immigrate to the UK just out of curiosity .

From this Spring, the government have made it harder. Immigrants will have to earn￡37,800 to get a skilled visitor visa.

But that's only a visitor visa.

Yeah. So that would allow them to work in the UK.

I see, 所以就是說如果是要工作的話, 基準線就必須得是37800英鎊. 差不多4萬磅的樣子, 也就是人民幣三十幾萬一年.

Except if they work in health or social care.

I see because you need them. You need you desperately needing workers in health or social care.

And the controversial part of this as well, I'll say it's all quite controversial, is that to bring a foreigner spouse to the UK, British citizens have to earn the same amount of money.

Spousal visa就是如果做一個英國人, 如果他的配偶是外國人, 他想把他帶過去在英國一起住的話, 英國公民必須也得賺到的錢在基準線以上.

Otherwise they won't get the spousal visa.

Exactly. And there have been a few cases where married couples can't actually live together because the British spouse can't get enough money to bring them over to the UK which I find just ridiculous.

Although I can see where they are coming from, but it does sound quite rotten. And what about refugees? 如果是難民的話.

The UK has signed the UN Convention to provide protection to those seeking refuge and also for asylum seekers as well.

就是避難的那種, for example political asylum.

Or refugees because of war or natural disasters.

I see. So when we are talking about the push back against immigrants, the waves of immigration, I think perhaps some British citizens or British nationals they’re, what they are against is not normal immigration going through the procedures, it’s more illegal immigration, that's what people are worried about.

That is quite controversial. So the government have launched a campaign called Stop The Boats.

Is this about people who are trying to sneak into the UK by boats.

Yeah. In 2023 around 30,000 people arrived in the UK by small boats crossing the channel.

So they're coming from where?

They're coming from Africa, the Middle East, Asia, they're coming from all over the world. So they go through Europe. And It's normally people traffickers that bring them over.

蛇頭 snake heads.

Yeah. They get to France and then they basically try to cross the channel in really dangerous boats, almost like rubber dinghy.

Yeah. And sometimes this will lead to death casualties.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, it's happened a few times when these boats have capsized or they have sunk and these people are in the middle of the channel.

Once they're in the UK, I assume it's the same thing like it's illegal to hire illegal immigrants if you know they're illegal immigrants.

It's illegal to rent a house out to an illegal immigrant.

But what if you don't know.

You have to do checks. So if you rent a house out to someone, you have to see their passport, you have to make sure that they're legally allowed to stay in the UK.

Yeah, because there are so many issues with illegal immigrants, not just to the host country, but it's also, for example, exploitation, abuse, and all of that.

Yeah. And the government have launched a very controversial plan to send illegal immigrants to Rwanda in Africa. Why?

Well, this is meant to act as a deterrent, so they come to the UK and then we send them to Africa.

But why Rwanda.

I think Rwanda was willing to accept them, and they send them to Rwanda while they claims are being processed.

Now this is incredibly controversial. The governments are pushing forward on this, but the law calls and some MPs and a lot of the public have fought against this plan to the point where one of the planes was about to take off. But then they had to stop it because the law court decided that it was illegal to do that.

I see, but I don't know who thought of that plan and thought that was a great plan.

I don't either. I've think it's incredibly stupid idea.

Okay. And let's wrap up this really, really heavy topic, really complex, controversial topic here.

Now I just want to make it very clear that whatever we say today, really, it's not trying to lead you on any type of perspectives really is just to sharing what is going on in the UK and what 安瀾is sharing is also what British people are thinking about essentially .

Exactly. The thing is this is a controversial issue. So I would say it's up to you to decide what you believe in. So We've given you the facts and I would say whatever your opinion is and that's your opinion.

Exactly. I think that's all we can do really.

Leave us a comment in the comment section if you would like to share your opinion, or you can also request any other topics you want us to talk about in the show.

Hopefully a little bit less heavy than this one.

Sorry, I brought this one up, but thank you 安瀾for coming to the studio.

Thanks, Lulu. Thanks. everyone.

We'll see you next time.

Bye

bye.