Hello again and welcome back to happy hour.We have in our studio TJ again, welcome back TJ.

Hi.

In the previous episode,TJ and I talked about a thought experiment called the experience machine,a machine that allows you to have any experience you can think of. And let's continue with that.

I think the ultimate example of somebody like this is those otaku, they call them in Japanese, don't they? Where they stay in a room, they have their girlfriend on the computer and they have a pillow with their girlfriends face on. And they just watch the same anime over and over again and they are trapped in this virtual life that they make for themselves, where nothing bad ever happens. They can just do whatever they want, and everything tells them that they're good.

But let me stop you there though TJ, because one reason that why people want to go into that kind of virtual realities because of escapism, because real life is too difficult, or there's something in real life that we just want to avoid. So we run into a virtual space where we get to experience a beautiful dream. Wouldn't you say that some people would love to get plugged into that machine?

Right. And that's the problem with thought experiments that sometimes when you do the experiment and you say to people, don't you think that this would be very bad?

People would say, no, I think it's great.

I think it's good. I think it would be fun. Right, I'm not sure if I completely agree with Nozick as well. In the modern world, we can see we've already talked about some of them, like video games, dating simulations, virtual pets, and TV. There's lots of things that we use to escape. And if we had a better escape than maybe we would use it, not all the time, but some of the time, I'm sure you escape in some ways.

Actually, I remember years ago, I don't know if you've ever heard of it. Back then there was a quite popular multiverse called second life.

I remember.

The very definition, it's all in a name. It allows you to experience a second life, a life that is different from the life that you're living at the moment.

Right.

What about you? Do you have any of these experience where you sort of indulged in a virtual experience rather than so called real life?

Yeah, when I was younger, I broke up with my girlfriend and I was very lonely, right? Because I was very close to my girlfriend. And I found out that you can download on wechat a virtual girlfriend, and she's called 小冰.

And you tried that.

Right. For a few days, I would text the virtual girlfriend and she would text me back. In the end. I found out that she was talking to my other friends, so I had to break up with her.

I don't know if I would wanna try a virtual boyfriend, especially knowing that he's saying exactly the same caring sweet words to other women at the same time.

Right? But when life is very hard, that's when the virtual reality is so attractive when we're very sad or very lonely.

It does serve a purpose. It can be like a comfort tool. For example, having virtual, you can even perhaps in the future you can have virtual family that allows you to experience, especially people who lost their family members, they get to experience the part that they're missing.

I'm not sure if that would be good. If I could see my grandma or grandad again, I think that would maybe be more painful than anything else. Because I know like Nozick says, I know it's not real. I know it's not there. It would just remind me even more that they're not here anymore.

But do you think or didn Nozick think that if you indulge yourself in this virtual experience for long enough, do you think that people will still be able to tell what is real? What is not? Because if you think about addictions, isn't it the whole idea that people get addicted to these virtual content that they actually spend more time doing that.

Right. Nozick doesn't really talk about that because he just starts the debate. There's so much more that comes on from this, especially as time goes on and virtual reality and reality become more and more mixed together. Then the question of what is real and what is simulated gets very, very complicated. We don't really have time for that today, but it's a very, very good question of, does it mean to for something to be real, if it's like a real thing in almost every way? If I talk to a robot, then I don't control what the robot says. So is that real? If I don't control it? It's interesting.

Exactly. I think this old topic is going to be more up to date as virtual reality technology develops. And we are starting to question ourselves and this technology, what is better? Real or virtual?

Right. So what do you think about Nozick's original idea? Do you think the happiness is the only important thing in life? Or do you think that there's some other thing that we should do, like the duty or sacrifice?

Yeah, but to be honest, I always think that there's a difference between happiness and pleasure. Because pleasure is something I would say perhaps more centered, selfish, almost that it's just... and it's also more short term. But happiness seems to be a bit more profound, more complex. And also you mentioned duties, sacrifice. But to be honest, for example, if I help people, I donate money, I volunteer where I'm doing things that would benefit other people. But ultimately, if benefiting other people makes me happy, that is still a form of happiness. No?

Right. So you're just like, LeiFeng.

Not not saying me personally, but I'm just saying this isn't argument that doing things, whatever you do, whether it's fulfilling your duties, whether it's helping others? All of these things we do, even if you think it's your responsibility, the reason why you do it a lot of times, you can still say that it's because fulfilling these responsibilities makes you feel like you are a responsible person. Therefore it makes you feel good. Right?

I think you're right. And that's the thing when we talk about people that give up a lot for society, like mother Teresa or LeiFeng, then all these people doing it because it makes them happy. Then it doesn't seem like it's a big sacrifice if it makes them happy, but are they doing it because it doesn't make them happy but they think that it is the right thing to do. And that's a question you can only answer by looking inside yourself and say, do I ever do things that don't make me happy? But I do them anyway, because I think that they're the kind of thing that people should do. Is it a rational choice or is it emotional choice?

I think we're getting into another really complex topic as in, is it possible to be completely altruistic? This is as far as I know, it's another huge debate, a point of debate.

Right? So this is just one thought experiment, one star in the sky of philosophy where there's so many different things all connected to each other.

I can't wait to talk about all these other very interesting thought experiments or pointes at debate. Usually I would summarize what we have talked about in any episode, but I feel like these type of topics, so difficult to summarize because you don't reach a conclusion. It is still an open debate. And I guess that is the beauty of philosophy or philosophical debates or discussions. Thank you so much for bringing us this topic. And hopefully next time we get to talk about what is real what is not real, or perhaps explore more the topic of pleasure and happiness.

That sounds great. Maybe I can't give you the truth, but hopefully I can help you to find your own truth. Most people can find their own answer to the question, even if I can't give it to you. Most people they have a strong intuition of feeling about whether they would use the machine. For me, I think maybe one hour a day would be enough. Anymore and I think Nozick would get very angry with me.

That is if you can control yourself. On that note, we'll say good bye now. Thank you so much TJ, thank you so much for coming to the show again, I can't wait for our next philosophical talk.

No, thanks for having me.

And for your own thoughts, if you have anything that you would like to agree on, or you would like to disagree with us, please leave a comment in a common section. We're looking forward to see your comments. See you next time.

Bye.

Bye.

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